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JonBenét Ramsey Murder Case The ongoing search for the killer of six-year-old JonBenét Ramsey, who was murdered Christmas night, 1996 in Boulder, Colorado. No one has ever been charged with her murder.

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:23 PM
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Eek! I believe home-invading serial pedophile and killer Mr. Cruel murdered Jonbenet Ramse

This post is divided into 4 parts

Part I Introduction
Part II Scientific theory of case linkage analysis
Part III Case Linkage Analysis Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet
Part IV Signature analysis - Why Mr. Cruel wrote a ransom note, and left with the body and ransom note inside the home

In Part I, I will introduce Mr. Cruel, and then layout the scientific theory that links Mr. Cruel to Jonbenet
In Part II, I will provide primary source scientific material on the science of case linkage analysis
In Part III, I provide the facts of Mr. Cruel and using case linkage analysis, apply them to Jonbenet
In Part IV, having linked Mr. Cruel to the crime as described in parts II and III, I then explain how Mr. Cruel's signature behaviors not only link him to Jonbenet, but also explain many puzzling aspects of the crime such as a ransom note and the body left behind, and the bonus. The most common RDI objection: if this is a kidnapping for ransom, why leave the body behind? If this is an assault on Jonbenet, why write a ransom note? Part IV answers this, but requires good understanding of the science of Part II (victimology,
MO, the offender, signature, ritual behaviors)

Part I introduction

An introduction to Mr. Cruel
This is a clickable embedded youtube video



if your tablet, smart phone or browser doesn't support embedded videos you can click here

http://youtu.be/H2krpMB2VAQ


Quote:
As crime globalizes, so does crime fighting. Mobsters, serial killers, and terrorists cross state lines and borders effortlessly, making use of the latest advances in mass media, public transportation, telecommunications, and computer networks.


This is Jonbenet



recall this canon of ethical guidelines

Quote:
Maintain an attitude of professionalism and integrity.
Conduct all research in a generally accepted scientific manner.
Assign appropriate credit for the ideas of others that are used.
Treat all information (not in the public domain) from a client or agency in a confidential manner, unless specific permission to disseminate information is obtained.
Maintain an attitude of independence and impartiality in order to ensure an unbiased analysis and interpretation of the evidence.
Strive to avoid preconceived ideas or biases regarding potential suspects or offenders from influencing a final profile or crime analysis when appropriate.
Render opinions and conclusions strictly in accordance with the evidence in the case.
Not exaggerate, embellish, or otherwise misrepresent qualifications when testifying, or at any other time, in any form.
Testify in an honest, straightforward manner and refuse to extend their opinion beyond their field of competence, phrasing testimony in a manner intended to avoid misinterpretation of their opinion.
Not use a profile or crime analysis (the inference of Offender or Crime Scene Characteristics) for the purposes of suggesting the guilt or innocence of a particular individual for a particular crime.
Make efforts to inform the court of the nature and implications of pertinent evidence if reasonably assured that this information will not be disclosed in court.

of particular interest here is this

Maintain an attitude of professionalism and integrity.
Conduct all research in a generally accepted scientific manner.
Render opinions and conclusions strictly in accordance with the evidence in the case.

The courts use the Daubert standard to determine science from junk science, pseduo-science and non-experts. This is the Daubert standard:

Quote:
scientific methodology" as the process of formulating hypotheses and then conducting experiments to prove or falsify the hypothesis, and provided a nondispositive, nonexclusive, "flexible" test for establishing its "validity":
  1. Empirical testing: the theory or technique must be falsifiable, refutable, and testable.
  2. Subjected to peer review and publication.
  3. Known or potential error rate.
  4. The existence and maintenance of standards and controls concerning its operation.
  5. Degree to which the theory and technique is generally accepted by a relevant scientific community.

that the following factors be considered:[24]
  1. Has the technique been tested in actual field conditions (and not just in a laboratory)? [e.g. fingerprinting has been extensively tested and verified not only in laboratory conditions, but even in actual criminal cases. So it is admissible. Polygraphy on the other hand has been well tested in laboratories but not so well tested in field conditions]
  2. Has the technique been subject to peer review and publication?
  3. What is the known or potential rate of error?
  4. Do standards exist for the control of the technique's operation? [e.g. the use of penile plethysmography for sex offender risk assessment is being used by different workers according to their own standards. Thus penile plethysmography does not meet Daubert criteria]
  5. Has the technique been generally accepted within the relevant scientific community?
case linkage is such a technique

My theory linking Mr. Cruel to Jonbenet rests on a scientific theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica Woodhams and Kirsty Toye

In many countries, government policy has required police forces to focus their investigative efforts on the minority of offenders who commit the majority of the crimes (Innes, Fielding, & Cope, 2005). This has motivated the police and professionals working with them to develop effective means of identifying crimes committed by the same offender (called serial crime or crime series). Behavioral and forensic scientists have developed methods for identifying serial crime. In the absence of suitable physical evidence, such as DNA evidence, to link different crime scenes, case linkage (also referred to as comparative case analysis and linkage analysis) can be used to examine the likelihood of a series of offenses being committed by the same unidentified offender (Grubin, Kelly, & Brunsdon, 2001; Hazelwood & Warren, 2003). Case linkage is typically conducted by crime analysts and involves the analyst engaging in a detailed behavioral analysis of criminals' crime scene actions (modus operandi [MO]) to determine whether there is a sufficient degree of similarity in behavior for the crimes to be attributed to a common offender.

Similarly, science has played an important role in developing means of identifying offenders from the physical evidence left at the crime scene (Innes et al., 2005). However, in some crimes, physical evidence is not available for identification means, and if the offender was a stranger to the victim, the offender cannot be identified in this alternative manner.


DNA, fingerprints, fibers are not the only scientific ways to link crimes based on an unknown subject (UNSUB). Behavior in itself can also be used to link crimes together by a common offender scientifically. While I believe the DNA on Jonbenet's longjohns and handwriting on the ransom note links Mr. Cruel to the crime, behavior itself can provide the link, and this can be done scientifically.

behavioral case linkage analysis is a scientific theory. My theory links Mr. Cruel's known crimes to the JB crime based on both a scientific description in similarity of crime scenes behaviors, motives, and Mr. Cruel's known language and the ransom note. Mr. Cruel is a serial pedophile sexual offender, there is a scientific way to link serial offenders to crime via behavioral similarity - (behavioral) case linkage analysis.

Organization:
I first provide primary source material on the scientifically research theory of case linkage analysis
then I provide information on Mr. Cruel victimology MO and signature and then case link the two
Finally I provide conclusion


Part II Scientific theory of case linkage analysis


This is science. This is a scientific theory that has been professionally researched in peer-reviewed journals. In Part III I provide primary source material on Mr. Cruel's crime series. I use the science described below, the scientific techniques described below in Part II, as a framework for Part III where I link Jonbenet to Mr. Cruel's crime series.












Quote:
Originally Posted by FairM
The fact seems to be that this individual has not been caught and there is reference to this person possibly fleeing abroad, so I am guessing he might have moved to America if so what Spin is saying is that his m.o fits this crime in a number of respects.
Spin did they ever get any DNA from this guy? I assume not.






















Understanding this is important for case linkage




















































Case linkage analysis aka behavior linkage analysis aka comparative case analysis is computerized

Violent Crime Linkage System (ViCLAS)

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/tops-opst/...salvac-eng.htm

I will highlight what is important

Quote:
Introduction

In the mid-1980s, following several complex, multi-jurisdictional serial homicide investigations (the Clifford Olson case being the most notable), it became apparent to Canadian law enforcement officials that a system was required to identify and track serial violent crime/criminals. The Canadian Police Information Centre (CPIC) Advisory Committee, comprised of the major police services across the country, agreed on the need for a central repository to capture, collate and compare violent crimes.


Other Serious Crime Linkage Systems

Some of the systems they examined included:
  • FBI Violent Criminal Apprehension Program (ViCAP);
  • Iowa State Sex Crimes Analysis System;
  • Minnesota State Sex Crimes Analysis System (MINN/SCAP);
  • Washington State Homicide Investigation Tracking System (HITS);
  • New York State Homicide Investigation & Lead Tracking (HALT);
  • New Jersey Homicide Evaluation & Assessment Tracking (HEAT); and
  • Pennsylvania State ATAC Program.
Research revealed that each of these systems were valuable investigative tools and a drastic improvement on our Major Crimes File. Unfortunately none of the systems met our needs so it was decided that a new Canadian system would be developed that would incorporate the best features of each of these systems.
One of the other shortcomings identified in the research of the American systems was that there was no one national major crime linkage system. The FBI’s ViCAP system had not been adopted by all police forces in the U.S. and it did not track serious sexual assaults. Research has shown that the escalation of violence which often occurs in sexual offenses can ultimately lead to homicide.


Types of Crimes

The next consideration in the ViCLAS development was the type of investigations that would be captured. After careful consideration, a list was developed and has evolved over the years to presently include:
  • All solved or unsolved homicides and attempts;
  • All solved or unsolved sexual assaults or attempts except familial/domestic unless there is unique or significant physical, sexual or verbal behaviour;
  • Missing persons where foul play is suspected;
  • Unidentified human remains where foul play is suspected;
  • All non-parental abductions and attempts;
  • False allegations of sexual assault or attempted murder;
  • All solved or unsolved or attempted child luring.
  • Regardless of the nature of the investigation, investigators may submit their case to ViCLAS using a ViCLAS Booklet if they have reason to believe that the offender involved (known or unknown) may have been responsible for other violent crimes or has the potential to offend/re-offend.
How it Works

When a serious crime occurs that qualifies as a ViCLAS reportable case, an investigator completes the questionnaire/booklet. The booklet is then sent to the ViCLAS centre responsible for the area the offence is reported in. The booklet then undergoes a quality assurance review, and some centres actually perform this twice. If the booklet does not pass the quality review, the investigator may be contacted directly to clear up some minor points or the booklet may be returned to the originator to be resubmitted when completed correctly.
Once the booklet has been entered on the system, the ViCLAS specialist begins the analytical process. This involves conducting extensive background research on both the victim and offender, if he or she is known. A typical analysis will involve the specialist reviewing all data that was available on the subject(s) including information from computerized police information retrieval systems, parolee files and any other reliable information source. They will review all statements, reports and photographs available and in some cases speak to investigators.
Once they have conducted their background research they will draw upon their experience and expertise by conducting various structured queries on ViCLAS. Each specialist will have his or her own approach to this process, but all will in some way be looking at victimology, the offender, modus operandi, behavioural and forensic data found at the scene for clues that may link cases to each other and/or reveal the identity of the offender.
In order to provide the investigators with feedback, they are advised, usually in writing, the results of the analysis, whether it is positive or negative. In the case where a potential link is made, the investigators are asked to provide the ViCLAS centre with the results of their investigation. A potential link is a situation where the ViCLAS specialist has reason to believe that a specific person, known or unknown, may be responsible for one or more crimes. When this occurs, the ViCLAS specialist connects the cases on the database in the form of a series. ViCLAS is then updated in the database accordingly when the investigator confirms or rejects the link by virtue of his/her investigation.


Conclusion

In the words of Insp. Ron MacKay, “The linking of a series of crimes committed by the same offender not only increases investigative efficiency, it also enhances the grounds for multiple charges and dangerous offender status, with resultant indefinite/longer sentences for serial offenders.”
The RCMP and most other major police departments in Canada have adopted a community-based approach to modern-day policing. Community-based policing is more than crime prevention programs or public relations exercises. It is a philosophy of problem-solving with consultation and input from partners and clients. ViCLAS operates on a similar model. It is more than just a computer system used by specially trained experts to link major crimes.
ViCLAS is a system that encourages and facilitates communication between investigators with the common goal of solving serious serial criminal acts and putting dangerous human predatorial offenders in jail. ViCLAS is considered a success whether a case is solved by virtue of the ViCLAS specialists using all of the tools at his disposal or as a result of communication generated between investigators attending ViCLAS lectures, conferences, or courses.


In effect I am playing the role of ViCLAS specialist.

another source
http://www.cibertito.com/2011/05/cri...and-databases/
Quote:
As crime globalizes, so does crime fighting. Mobsters, serial killers, and terrorists cross state lines and borders effortlessly, making use of the latest advances in mass media, public transportation, telecommunications, and computer networks. The police – there are 16,000 law enforcement agencies in the Unites States alone – is never very far behind. Quotes from the official Web pages of some of these databases:
National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC)
Its mission is to combine investigative and operational support functions, research, and training in order to provide assistance, without charge, to federal, state, local, and foreign law enforcement agencies investigating unusual or repetitive violent crimes. The NCAVC also provides support through expertise and consultation in non-violent matters such as national security, corruption, and white-collar crime investigations.
It comprises the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU), Child Abduction and Serial Murder Investigative Resources Center (CASMIRC), and Violent Criminal Apprehension Program (VICAP).
VICAP is a nationwide data information center designed to collect, collate, and analyze crimes of violence – specifically murder. It collates and analyzes the significant characteristics of all murders, and other violent offenses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Rex
Other than that Mr Cruel abducted and molested girls, what other evidence is there that he was involved in JonBenet's death?


Behavioral similarity and victimology is in itself evidence of his involvement. Recall that behavior evidence analysis and the scientific principles of crime scene reconstruction can reconstruct likely motives and behaviors and actions of the perp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairM
The fact seems to be that this individual has not been caught and there is reference to this person possibly fleeing abroad, so I am guessing he might have moved to America if so what Spin is saying is that his m.o fits this crime in a number of respects.
Spin did they ever get any DNA from this guy? I assume not.


MO and signature

FairM it's worth reviewing MO and signature.

Next week I will post a video documentary with re-enactments of Mr. Cruel and we can compare it to behavior evidence.

The following is a peer-reviewed research paper detailing an application of behavioral case linkage analysis.

The reasoning presented in this peer-reviewed journal article shows how Mr. Cruel can be shown to be Jonbenet's killer












Part III


Case Linkage Analysis Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet


Section A - overview of Mr. Cruel's crime series
Section B - Mr. Cruel as the author of the Jonbenet Ransom note
Section C - Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet a case linkage analysis
Section D Conclusions and further research

Section A
this is a clickable embedded video



if your browser/tablet doesn't support YT embedded videos click on

http://youtu.be/P8Wq_wl0SDk


Section B. Mr. Cruel as the author of the Jonbenet Ransom note


Comparison of Mr. Cruel's statements (i.e bozo, worry wort missy) and the Ransom note


Mr. Cruel wrote "payback Asian drug dealer" and "More and more to come" (Jonbenet?) was an attempt by Mr. Cruel to make the kidnapping seem the work of a drug gang. The JB ransom note speaks of a small foreign group and "we" to make it seem like a terrorist
Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.

Mr. Cruel is a small foreign faction of one"Payback Asian drug dealer" I am a member of a child porn and pedophile network from Australia. When I abducted Karmein Chan, I tried to mislead investigators seem the work of a drug gang. Here I try to mislead this into some kind of international terrorist group.

You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John.

"More and more to come" Karmein Chan's family (and Nicola Lyna) are both wealthy, and he executed Karmein Chan.


Mr. Cruel told Sharon Wills "Make a sound, and you die"

Ransom note reads:
If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies.


He woke up and tied up the parents, but then snuck into Sharon's room and did NOT wake up the other 3 sisters. In Ramsey he snuck into the house without waking anyone up.

He made a $25,000 ransom demand but never collected on it. Carrying these girls out over distance must have been exhausting, requiring rest.

The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.


In the case of Nicola Lynn and Sharon Wills, Mr. Cruel arranged delivered them and then to have them "pick-up" their daughters, a confusion seen on the ransom note.

Mr. Cruel above abducted Nicola Lynas and demanded $25, 000 for her safe return. Mr. Cruel abducted Nicola Lynas from her wealthy "exclusive" Cantebury home. $25, 000 is a miniscule fraction of what the Lynas could have paid. He had previously kidnapped Sharon Wills on Dec 27, 1988.

At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
This is a version of the note with Mr. Cruel-isms substituted in.

Mr. Cruel said Don't be a hero.

DON"T be a hero vs Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. __________________

Listen carefully - Mr. Cruel's exact words when he wispered into Nicola Lynas' older sister before making a ransom demand "tell your father it will cost $25000 to get his daughter back"

A version with Mr. Cruel-ism inserted

Mr. Ramsey

Listen carefully, (what he told Nicola Lynas' older sister) you bozo, tell your father it will cost $25, 000 ! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction, so payback Asian drug dealer! We do respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. (Australia contacted the FBI to help in the hunt for Mr. Cruel) More and More to come. At this time we have your missy in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and a little worry wort, you must follow our instructions to the letter. I won't hurt her, I just want the money.

You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up (Mr. Cruel delivered Sharon Wills and then she was picked-up) of your daughter.

Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. (Sorry Karmein Chan) The two gentlemen watching over your daughter (he made statements to this effect to Sharon Wills et al) do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. (I won't hurt you I just want the money) Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. (i.e like Karmein Chan) If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. Unfortunately my freedom is more important than your life. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. (Mr. Cruel is widely known for his expertise in forensics and police tactics) You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.

You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't be a hero John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Don't be a hero. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John! (movie quote to Deer Hunter)

Victory! Pay back Asian Drug Dealer!

SBTC Seduced by the Child



Section C Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet a case linkage analysis
Quote:
Each specialist will have his or her own approach to this process, but all will in some way be looking at victimology, the offender, modus operandi, behavioural and forensic data found at the scene for clues that may link cases to each other and/or reveal the identity of the offender.


Using the scientific theory of case linkage as outlined in Part II establishing Mr. Cruel is case linked to Jonbenet, that Jonbenet is part of a case series that includes LP, Sharon Wills, Eloise Worledge, Nicola Lynas and Karmein Chan, is to not only prove that Jonbenet was killed by an intruder, but that intruder is Mr. Cruel to scientific standards. It is no different in principle than linking tDNA from Jonbenet clothing to tDNA found on clothing worn by Sharon Wills,Nicola Lynas and Karmein Chan or tDNA found on Eloise Worledge bedsheets.

Victimology

Mr. Cruel's selection of victims

Sharon Wills a known victim of Mr. Cruel, which happened on Dec 27, 1988 in her own home with her family and sisters present a day after Jonbenet (Dec 26, 1996)






Mr. Cruel was sexually attracted to Sharon Wills enough to enter her home with her parents and sisters present in the middle of the night on the day after Christmas 1988 (see my thread Christmas with Mr. Cruel). Mr. Cruel's idea of Christmas and Santa Claus presents is molesting the girl pictured below





since Mr. Cruel found Sharon Wills beautiful enough to enter her home with her parents present obviously he would be attracted to Jonbenet. It is obvious Mr. Cruel has intense interest and attraction to young girls. The one thing that the US had in the 90s that Australia did not in the 70s 80s and 90s were child beauty pageants, and not only was Jonbenet pretty but she gamed fame as Miss Colorado. So while camping hiking and skiing in Boulder Co while deep underground as he's wanted for Karmein's Chan murder, he obviously would have taken great interest in child beauty pageants that they have in US they they don't have in Australia.








another early victim believed to be Mr. Cruel's first is Eloise Worledge pictured right



Karmein Chan is Chinese preteen female who like Jonbenet was abducted in her own home.



Karmein Chan is underage female like Jonbenet and was in her own home with family like Jonbenet. The writing on her crime scene "pay back Asian drug dealer more and more to come" matches the signature of the Jonbenet ransom note. The MO of both scenes are similar. Mr. Cruel motherly tenderly tone and language "I won't hurt you I just want the money" matches the language and tone of the .




The twelve also includes Seanna Tapp, home invasion at night, murder by ligature strangulation (mother also murdered)



Missing schoolgirl Siriyakorn "Bung" Siriboon




The Offender


Mr Cruel was a meticulous, intelligent predator, say police

THE hunt for Mr Cruel was always going to be hard because he put his knowledge of forensic evidence to good use by meticulously cleaning up after his crimes.

source http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...-1226320066350

Mr. Cruel is a highly intelligent criminal sophisticated mastermind who can work in near total darkness. Karmein Chan and Nicola Lynas had home security systems which Mr. Cruel was able to disable and he can enter homes undetected. Chans and Lynas both lived in fenced-in properties. Mr. Cruel knows all forensic and police investigation techniques and countermeasures. He applies this knowledge - All this for little girls.

Mr. Cruel told his victim's older sister Nicola Lydia "listen carefully, tell your father it will cost $25,000 to get her back" pictured middle above (btw I do want the $300,000 reward

in addition to those 4, Mr. Cruel is believed to be responsible for as many 12 young girls spanning a decade

Quote:
Mr Cruel suspected of at least a dozen attacks on children
Quote:

POLICE suspect Mr Cruel was responsible for at least a dozen sickening attacks on children over a 10-year period.


Karmein Chan, his last known victim, was abducted in April 1991. Her body was found a year later.
Detectives believe he would have committed minor offences for years before graduating to abduction, rape and finally murder.
Those offences almost certainly included stealing underwear from washing lines to masturbate over and sitting outside houses peering through windows.

One of these suspected attacks was on a 14-year-old girl who was abducted from her Hampton home in Melbourne's southern suburbs in 1985. She was tied, gagged and blindfolded before being driven to a vacant building site and assaulted. The scared and scarred schoolgirl was dumped at the nearby Moorabbin Bowl on the Nepean Highway several hours after being kidnapped.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...-1226323143197
Quote:
Dec 14, 2010 - Mr Cruel is wanted over attacks on at least three other girls, and is believed to have attacked up to 12 children
Mr. Cruel | Aussie Criminals and Crooks

aussiecriminals.com.au/tag/mr-cruel/

'Mr Cruel' filmed his victims, say police - National - theage.com.au

www.theage.com.auNational
Quote:
Apr 8, 2006 - Australia's most notorious child sex offender, Mr Cruel, kept secret videotapes of his victims as trophies of his crimes

MO

Mr. Cruel breaks into homes at night under the cover of darkness. He brings with him many of the same items as seen in Jonbenet including rope, ligature, bindings, and is an expert in knots.


14-year-old girl who was abducted from her Hampton home in Melbourne's southern suburbs in 1985. She was tied, gagged and blindfolded before being driven to a vacant building site and assaulted

matches Jonbenet ligature tape over mouth

Quote:
Mr Cruel woke the girl's parents and forced them to lie on their stomachs while he expertly tied their hands and feet, using knots commonly tied by sailors and those familiar with securing loads. He then gagged them and put surgical tape over their eyes before locking them in their bedroom wardrobe. Their six-year-old son was blindfolded, gagged and tied to his bed.
Mr Cruel then turned his attention to the real reason for the break-in - sexual gratification from the 11-year-old girl. He was in no hurry, spending about two hours in the house. So cool was he during the attack that he took a break from raping the girl to make himself a meal.


  • Top: The rope around her neck
  • Bottom: Broken paintbrush handle attached to ligature






Actual Boot Print (Crime Scene Photo)



Mr. Cruel has no difficulty entering an occupied home at night, navigating unfamiliar homes in darkness, uses ligature bindings knots, uses tape in his known crimes, which is also the case for an intruder in the Jonbenet crime.

Signature


Given that FBI profiling is completely unscientific and has no empirical support, it is not a very promising approach. For a further discussion see here
inner circle: how to use scientific methodology to assess dueling experts

I provide a review of scientific methodology of crime scene reconstruction here
inner circle: scientific principles of crime reconstruction
here is a link for another update


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Rex
Other than that Mr Cruel abducted and molested girls, what other evidence is there that he was involved in JonBenet's death?


From Mr. Cruel
Mr. Cruel covered his tracks, preventing any forensic trace evidence linking him to his crimes. The characteristics of his known crimes matches up to JB and I can establish it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karmein_Chan
Quote:

Karmein Chan was a 13-year-old Australian girl from Templestowe, Victoria who was abducted on the 13th of April in 1991 and subsequently murdered. [1]
While both her parents worked at their Chinese restaurant in Eltham, an individual abducted Karmein from the family home in Templestowe, locking her siblings in another room. Before leaving, he spray painted anti-Asian slogans on a vehicle in their front yard. Police suspect this was used to detract from the killer's real motive. Karmein's mother made an emotional plea on television for Karmein's return. The investigation was hampered by the use of an old school photo of Karmein, which may not have represented her true appearance at the time of her abduction. Her badly decomposed body was found a year later in Melbourne's northern outskirts in Edgars Creek, Thomastown.
This crime is believed to have been committed by a man aptly known only as Mr. Cruel, who despite much effort on the part of Victoria Police, has never been brought to justice.
On December 14, 2010 Victoria Police announced that a new Taskforce had been established about eight months earlier following substantial new intelligence. The new Taskforce has been reviewing both the Spectrum Taskforce investigation and some new leads that have come in the last year or so.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Cruel
Quote:

"Mr. Cruel" is the name given to an Australian murderer and rapist who attacked girls in suburban Melbourne in the late 1980s and early 1990s. His identity is unknown.


Mr. Cruel moniker by newspaper sub-editors. Melbourne Police believe that he is responsible for a series of child rapes and abductions dating back to 1985.
  • On 22 August 1987 in Lower Plenty, a man broke into a family home at 4 a.m. armed with a knife and a gun. He tied the hands and feet of both parents and locked them in a wardrobe. The son was tied to a bed and the eleven year old daughter was attacked. He cut the phone lines.
  • On 27 December 1988 in Ringwood, he broke into the back door of a house at 5.30 a.m., armed with a knife and a small handgun. He bound and gagged the parents, and demanded money. He grabbed the ten year old daughter, Sharon Wills, put tape over her eyes, a ball gag in her mouth and abducted her. She was released 18 hours later in the grounds of Bayswater high school.
  • On 3 July 1990 in Canterbury, he broke into a house at 11.30 p.m. and tied and gagged a thirteen year girl, Nicola Lynas. He placed tape over her eyes, disabled the phones and searched for money. He drove her to another house and molested her for fifty hours before releasing her at a power sub-station in the suburb of Kew.
  • On 13 April 1991 in Templestowe, armed with a knife, he abducted thirteen year old Karmein Chan. Her body, with three gunshot wounds to the head, was found a year later.
Mr. Cruel is believed to have videotaped or perhaps taken still photographs of his attacks. Detectives believe that if he is still alive, he will have kept the tapes and/or photos and will still collect, and possibly swap, child pornography. They say he almost certainly continues to collect pornography through the internet and may communicate with children using chat lines.[1] He plans his crimes - for example, in one case he abducted a girl and told her he would release her in exactly 50 hours, and indeed he did He bathed his victims carefully, with one victim describing the act as "like a mother washing a baby", and wiped benchtops etc.



Section D Conclusions

Mr. Cruel did it.Why Mr. Cruel?

*He likes little girls, 4 known attacks, suspected in 12 more, has intense interest in little girls
*He assaults them in their own homes, with their families present, over school holidays
*he has detailed knowledge of forensics and countermeasures, including fingerprints, bindings, semen, etc. Despite attacking as many as 16 girls, there is no DNA and no semen to connect him (according to press reports they have no DNA profile on him) He has planned ahead and taken girls clothing and redressed them to minimize forensic fiber
*he is a careful planner, engages in extensive surveillance and intelligence gathering
*his whereabouts are unknown, with speculation he's left the country
*he manipulates the crime scene to mislead investigators even before he initiates his abduction (i.e with Karmen Chan, he arrived, wrote anti-Asian graffiti to make it look like a hate crime, before entering the house and abducting Karmein Chan)
*he's "foreign" and is part of a pedophile ring

Part IV Signature analysis Why Mr. Cruel left a body and ransom note inside the home

Understanding this section requires familiarity with science described in Part II

A common RDI objection is that Jonbenet was killed by an intruder, why did the intruder leave the body with the ransom note? The ransom note demands money, yet the body was left in the home. The implication is that the Ramsey's wrote the ransom note to stage the kidnapping and mislead investigators. This question has an implicit assumption, that the ransom note was a genuine attempt at ransom money. It may very well be an example of what crime investigators call - pre-crime offender manipulation of investigative communication.

The RDI then try to exclude the alternative possibility that a sexual predator would not take the time to write a 3-page ransom note. They offer no evidence -scientific or otherwise- for such a conclusion. From Jack the Ripper to the Zodiac to the Lipstick Killer to DC Sniper to Charles Manson, there have been many examples of killers leaving writing at the crime scene.

...And Mr. Cruel

worth reviewing

Quote:
Mr Cruel woke the girl's parents and forced them to lie on their stomachs while he expertly tied their hands and feet, using knots commonly tied by sailors and those familiar with securing loads. He then gagged them and put surgical tape over their eyes before locking them in their bedroom wardrobe. Their six-year-old son was blindfolded, gagged and tied to his bed.
Mr Cruel then turned his attention to the real reason for the break-in - sexual gratification from the 11-year-old girl. He was in no hurry, spending about two hours in the house. So cool was he during the attack that he took a break from raping the girl to make himself a meal.


Mr Cruel then turned his attention to the real reason for the break-in - sexual gratification from the 11-year-old girl. He was in no hurry, spending about two hours in the house.

The signature of Mr. Cruel's known crimes and this crime is an exact match. Mr. Cruel's primary reason is sexual gratification and in this instance and dozen others, he molested young girls in the house (in other cases he abducted them to another location). His signature in his crimes that are seen here includes claiming money, making ransom demands, and leaving written messages (as in Karmein Chan Payback Asian drug dealer, more and more to come). His statements match the RN, and he seems to have an interest in movies (Don't be a hero is what he told Sharon wills Dad matchs Dirty Harry as in the RN)

The reason he wrote the RN is to mislead, and this signature is also present in the other crimes. He left his body for the same reason as with the 11 year old girl, he was done with sexual gratification. He also knew it would more deeply implicate the Ramseys. Remember the Chan's family was the focus of the investigation they had to prove they were not asian drug dealers. Mr. Cruel never left behind semen and no semen was found on JB.

Victimology, MO and signature all match therefore Mr. Cruel is case linked to Jonbenet

The reason Mr. Cruel left the body and the ransom note is that is his signature. His signature is to make ransom notes and leave writing on the scene and to mislead investigators. The reason he left the body is that he was done with his sexual urges and he wanted to deeply implicate the Ramseys. He was also concerned that Taskforce Spectrum may be suspicious so he had to leave a ransom note and body to throw suspicion away from himself and towards the Ramsey.

Mr. Cruel's signature present in all his crimes is that he claims he wants money including ransom money, but he does not. He wants sexual gratification. It is also MO in that when he tells family he just wants money, where's the money, they tell him and do not resist. If they had known he was interested in their daughter sexually, they probably would resist (which is probably what happened to Seanna and Margaret Tapp) Mr. Cruel also left writing on the crime scene before he committed crimes (payback Asian drug dealer more and more to come) to mislead investigators as to the true nature of the crime.

Mr. Cruel's signature present in his known crimes and present in the Jonbenet crimes includes misleading investigators as to his real motive, making ransom demands, speaking in a genteel manner (I won't hurt you I just want the money) claiming to be something sinister (Asian drug dealers, small foreign faction) and even telling his victims 2 gentlement watching over them. We see this signature in Jonbenet crime.

Mr. Cruel knows that in Eloise Worledge the parents were the prime suspect. What Mr. Cruel learned from Bonny Clarke is that if you leave the dead child in the house, the parents the mother becomes the prime suspect (though innocent). What Mr. Cruel learned from his own experiences making ransom demands is that they are taken seriously and completely derail the investigation. What Mr. Cruel learned from his own experience with Karmein Chan is that leaving writing at the crime scene completely confuses investigators and makes the focus on the parents (Chans had to prove they were not Asian drug dealers or had debt to Asian drug dealers - many believed they did have drug debt which is false). Then there's the dingo case in Australia.

SCENARIO

Jonbenet was killed in her own house, with her family present, over a school holiday.

Mr. Cruel (abbreviated MC) is known to attack as many as 12 girls (4 confirmed) in their own homes with their family present at night over school holidays. After abducting and killing Karmen Chan in 1991, MC set off a major investigative search and intense media scrutiny. MC decides that if he kills again in his region, he would face the high degree of getting caught. Over a couple of years his desire for another target grows. While vacationing in Boulder, skiing, he hears of a young Miss Beauty Pageant winner named JB. He, if fascinated. He knows if he follows his older MO, he might be identified. So he decides to change his MO a bit, this time, he will photograph and videotape Miss Pageant winner in her own house. He knows from past experiences that he was identified, for example, his previous attempt to frame Karmein Chan as a racist hate crime failed. So MC decides this time, he will try to frame the parents, by keeping the body in the house.

He may have had some kind of agreement with Jonbenet, a secret visit from Santa Claus. She opened the door for him. No forced entry. If Mr. Cruel was responsible for Eloise Worlege abduction, then he has done this before. JB voluntarily opened the door for Mr. Cruel, and Cruel may even fed her pineapple.

He carefully prepares for his crime, with skills and equipment he has used from his previous 4-16 previous attacks. Part of the preparation is to enter the Ramsey house weeks or even months prior to his eventual target date of Christmas. He takes JR's pay stub which shows his bonus, and he removes the notepad, with PR's handwriting. His knowledge of forensics lets him know that markers are much harder to identify reliably than ballpoint pen. As with Karmein Chan, he writes his message on PR's note pad, practicing the script on PR's known handwriting from the notepad. On Christmas, he returns to the R's house with the notepad and his 3-page ransom note. He takes JB, films and photographs her, kills her, and leaves the RN behind. He returns to Australia, while the R's take the blame.

He may have removed JB from the R's house entirely, to another location, where he videotaped and photographed her. He left behind the RN as a kind of tripwire/canary in the coal mind. He kills JB outside the R's house. He returns, see they are still sleeping, and hides JB's dead body in the basement, knowing that R's would take the fall. He had expected that the R's would call the police, the police search the house and find JB body in the basement (unbeknownst to R's) and take R's in for questioning.

The last words Jonbenet heard alive were "Worry wort, missy, bozo"

for further discussion:

There are 4 lines of evidence that links Mr. Cruel to Jonbenet murder and all converge

I provide a further elucidation -- the links are clickable

One line of evidence involves comparisons with Mr. Cruel's crimes in Australia, both the 4 known (Karmein Chan, Nicolia Lydia, Sharon Wills, Lower Plenty) and the 12 attributed to him (Eloise Worlege, Seanna Tapp, Prudence Bird, Kylie Marbury) to Jonbenet crime

Quote:
As crime globalizes, so does crime fighting. Mobsters, serial killers, and terrorists cross state lines and borders effortlessly, making use of the latest advances in mass media, public transportation, telecommunications, and computer networks.


“The linking of a series of crimes committed by the same offender not only increases investigative efficiency, it also enhances the grounds for multiple charges and dangerous offender status, with resultant indefinite/longer sentences for serial offenders.”

Each specialist will have his or her own approach to this process, but all will in some way be looking at victimology, the offender, modus operandi, behavioural and forensic data found at the scene for clues that may link cases to each other and/or reveal the identity of the offender.
This involves conducting extensive background research on both the victim and offender, if he or she is known.

A potential link is a situation where the ViCLAS specialist has reason to believe that a specific person, known or unknown, may be responsible for one or more crimes. When this occurs, the ViCLAS specialist connects the cases on the database in the form of a series. ViCLAS is then updated in the database accordingly when the investigator confirms or rejects the link by virtue of his/her investigation.

Research revealed that each of these systems were valuable investigative tools and a drastic improvement on our Major Crimes File.


By identifying Mr. Cruel as JB's killer, I am linking Mr. Cruel's previous known crimes to JB crime.

Crime scene investigation and linkage analysis (work in progress)

Jonbenet, Eloise Worledge, and Mr. Cruel - possible link

Mr. Cruel signature aspects includes attacking girls on Christmas like JB

Redpill Trick or Treat: Grinch who stole Christmas- Mr. Cruel's Christmas

Mr. Cruel has left ransom demands without collecting

Answering RDI objections: why Mr. Cruel left a ransom note and the body



One scenario promoted by Stephen Singulair matches Mr. Cruel's MO

STEPHEN SINGULAR interview on Jonbenet and Mr. Cruel MO


The second line of evidence is Mr. Cruel's known skill set and victim preferences and the Jonbenet crime scene



A discussion of Mr. Cruel's thoroughness in preventing forensic evidence linking him to his crimes are detailed here

redpill: lessons Mr. Cruel "we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures"

as well as Mr. Cruel's known patterns and the JB pineapple mystery

redpill JB's fingerprints disappeared or Mr. Cruel fed JB pineapple

Third line of evidence is psychological and behavioral profile of Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet Crime


(work in progress)

Fourth line of evidence links Mr. Cruel as the author of the Ransom Note


Mr. Cruel language and action match the JB ransom note
redpill Mr. Cruel's actions statements match the Ransom note's language - part 1

The Jonbenet Ransom note and Australian English (work in progress)

Mr. Cruel actions and experience and the Ransom note -- Mr. Cruel denied Phyllis Chan's request for a proper burial of Karmein, who was "beheaded" (work in progress)


Lastly, I will explain several puzzling aspects of the Jonbenet murder in light of what is known about Mr. Cruel and his motives


some examples

redpill: lessons Mr. Cruel "we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures"

redpill JB's fingerprints disappeared or Mr. Cruel fed JB pineapple


Answering RDI objections: why Mr. Cruel left a ransom note and the body

Mr. Cruel and the Jonbenet tape lip impressions NOT evidence of staging (work in progress)


further reading

The Daubert standard when applied to forensic document examiners, excludes Patsy Ramsey as the author (as evidence by the RDI smear campaign to recruit FDE's who do not meet this standard and simply ignore the expert witness testimony of FDE's who DID study the originals in their smear)

the redpill; Daubert-standard forensic document examiners eliminate Patsy as author


coming soon:

Understanding crime linkage from Mr. Cruel's previous 4 known attacks and JB's crime scene

More matches between the RN and Mr. Cruels words and statements

Reasons Mr. Cruel would be in Boulder Co

RN idioms are common in Australian English

How to find JB's killer with Mr. Cruel as the culprit

Mr. Cruel's reason for writing an RN as a countermeasure to FBI profiling

Familiarity with the relevant forensics discussed here:
Daubert, weapon of the IDI knight, not clumsy or random like an RDI smear
trace evidence
Forensic fiber, hair evidence is evidence of an intruder
How do Australians see Mr. Cruel? Sample remarks

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1225970520859

Quote:
mr cruel u are still alive







chadstone said...


Now the task force apollo is looking at who mr cruel is.good.the creep should rot in gaol.he's responsible for eloise worledge.and pru bird Android kamein chan.is that a serial sex killer?or a killer who covers his tracks after sexual assault?




chadstone said...


I know he's a driven piece of filth.kept coming back to the same house.why did he do that?he was not successful. He did scare my kids.he scared me.he did attack my son.lifted him up by the feet.whispered crap to him.




chadstone said...


What do you expect us to do said the police?useless!




http://chadstone-mrcrueluarestillali...blog-post.html

Quote:
  • Adrian of Melb Airport Posted at 1:01 AM December 14, 2010
    I hope the police close in and find this lowlife. He deserves to be hung, terrorising kids. It just goes to show you that it could be your neighbour, anyone. Keep a close watch on your children.
    Comment 2 of 79
  • James B......A proud Essendon High Mark Member. of Bendigo, Vic Posted at 1:44 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember this case. It's a case that no one thought would ever be solved.
    Comment 3 of 79
  • Drew of Port Melbourne Posted at 3:38 AM December 14, 2010
    let's hope they catch this monster, 20 years is too long to wait for justice.
    Comment 4 of 79
  • dedsetmad of Noarlane Posted at 6:24 AM December 14, 2010
    If they catch this freak, he will be sentenced to 8-10 years in prison, and with good behaviour, (what a joke...bribery to behave) be out in 6. Paedophiles don't change and should be given sentences that reflect that fact. In other words, life in gaol: unless change for the better can be proven. How, you ask? Personally I don't care.
    Comment 5 of 79
  • jim Posted at 6:30 AM December 14, 2010
    The Govt should put a large reward up to catch this clown,
    Comment 6 of 79
  • Mum of 3 Posted at 6:31 AM December 14, 2010
    Please, please find this vile man. He is obviously smug enough to think he has got away with these crimes. I vaguely remember them, having only just come to Australia at around that time. It is always good to hear of long unsolved crimes still being investigated. What an evil man. I hope someone comes forward with more information. RIP Karmein.
    Comment 7 of 79
  • yarn cornish of Townsville Posted at 6:36 AM December 14, 2010
    There are some embryos that should be destroyed at conception
    Comment 8 of 79
  • Terribla Posted at 6:45 AM December 14, 2010
    it's about time!
    Comment 9 of 79
  • Steve of Stawell Posted at 6:46 AM December 14, 2010
    If ever there was a reason to bring back capitol punishment, this is it. String him up and leave him there. Sick F*%& May he rot in hell.
    Comment 10 of 79
  • Marilyn Deppeler-Hull of Ivanhoe East Posted at 7:00 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember these crimes vividly as I had you children at the time. I believe the reward for a conviction should be $1,000,000. I would be happy for my taxpayer dollars to be used.
    Comment 11 of 79
  • Ross of Sunshine West Posted at 7:03 AM December 14, 2010
    You will eventually get caught, make no mistake about that!
    Comment 12 of 79
  • Amanda of Melbourne Posted at 7:18 AM December 14, 2010
    I hope justice is finally foung. Karmein was very near to my age when this happened and I remember the case vividly. I hope her family gets some closure soon.
    Comment 13 of 79
  • Ex reporter Posted at 7:24 AM December 14, 2010
    Keep looking over you shoulder you bastard. The cops never forget and they never give up.
    Comment 14 of 79
  • wog of Melb Posted at 7:45 AM December 14, 2010
    when you catch him hand him over to the general public dont worry about the courts
    Comment 15 of 79
  • Grant of Gippsland Posted at 7:54 AM December 14, 2010
    Better to give yourself up Maggot, and be tried by a court on this earth for as sure as you breathe today; you will face the Supreme Judge one day, and His Court will truly hand to you, a justice that will be harsher than any court on earth and you will burn for eternity and that is a bloody long time.
    Comment 16 of 79
  • Sam of MELBOURNE Posted at 8:07 AM December 14, 2010
    l still remember this case but there is always more to the story when one out of three girls were removed from the family home and murdered it cant be for no reason....
    Comment 17 of 79
  • Ben of Richmond Posted at 8:07 AM December 14, 2010
    Looks like the cops are trying to shake suspects up a bit to see their reaction - usually the reason they go public like this in old cases.
    Comment 18 of 79
  • chris of what the eff Posted at 8:17 AM December 14, 2010
    Watch your back you dog your day is coming and then the boys inside will sort you out you low life scum bag kids you harm love to get my hands on you low life dog.........
    Comment 19 of 79
  • dan Posted at 8:21 AM December 14, 2010
    Yeah imagine if he's caught our justice system will probably give him 10 years and he'll be out in 5 for good behaviour.
    Comment 20 of 79
  • Darren of Carlton Posted at 8:24 AM December 14, 2010
    Just out of interest, why wasn't this information (...he often used the terms "Bozo", "Worry Wart" and "Missy" to his victims...) released at the time? Might have been helpful, don't you think?
    Comment 21 of 79
  • Gethim! Posted at 8:28 AM December 14, 2010
    Mr Cruel, you had better hope you are never brought to justice. You will have many 'friends' waiting for you on the inside. You'd come to know what cruel is you sick, sadistic mongrel! I remember what it was like for young children in the Northern Suburbs because of you. You made it unsafe for us to visit friend's homes unless our parents could drop us off, we were fearful to walk anywhere, all because of you.
    Comment 22 of 79
  • chris of city west Posted at 8:30 AM December 14, 2010
    Can I have a crack at him when he is caught
    Comment 23 of 79
  • Digger Posted at 8:34 AM December 14, 2010
    Once again we need Sharia law to hang these scums.
    Comment 24 of 79
  • Steve Taylor Posted at 8:40 AM December 14, 2010
    Catch him & bring back the death penalty!
    Comment 25 of 79
  • chris of what the eff Posted at 8:41 AM December 14, 2010
    You day is coming Mr.Cruel and when it does l hope you cop your right whack and l only hope someone inside sorts you out you scum bag how can anyone hurt a child they are harmless and innocent watch your back you dog....... I HAVE 3 GIRLS AND IF ANYONE HURT THEM I WOULD DESTROY THEM IF I CAUGHT THEM OR IF THEY GOT CAUGHT BEFORE I GOT MY HANDS ON THEM I WOULD MAKE AN EFFORT TO GO JAIL JUST TO FIX THE SCUM BAG UP.....................
    Comment 26 of 79
  • Aisha Brown Posted at 8:41 AM December 14, 2010
    I've never been pro death sentence but I think I'd let this one through.
    Comment 27 of 79
  • Cheryl of Melbourne Posted at 8:42 AM December 14, 2010
    Tick,tick,tick,tick, time is running out and they are coming to get your filthy body and mind, just waiting to see your impotent little features you bastard.
    Comment 28 of 79
  • All spin-no substance! of Melbourne Posted at 8:50 AM December 14, 2010
    That piece of serial crap deserves the death penalty when finally caught like the rabid dog he is!!!
    Comment 29 of 79
  • Zeus of Melbourne Posted at 8:57 AM December 14, 2010
    You will rot and rot in hell for eternity you vile vile man.
    Comment 30 of 79
  • E of Melbourne Posted at 8:58 AM December 14, 2010
    I was 6 at the time and still remember being so frightened when hearing about it. I have never forgotten it and had many nightmares. They must catch this animal.
    Comment 31 of 79
  • Sam Posted at 9:14 AM December 14, 2010
    Really? Many years ago, police asserted that Mr Cruel had probably been in jail for some other offence a long time ago, and would have died already in jail. Now they say they are closing in on him.
    Comment 32 of 79
  • Concerned View of Australia Square Posted at 9:17 AM December 14, 2010
    In the good old days he would be taken to the top of a skyscraper for a day out.
    Comment 33 of 79
  • Jell of East Brunswick Posted at 9:24 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember being terrified of Mr Cruel as I was a little kid in the early 90's. God I hope they kind him and he gets everything he deserves. At least now we might have the right Government to ensure that justice is served!
    Comment 34 of 79
  • Shane Hurley of Cranbourne North Posted at 9:24 AM December 14, 2010
    Unfortunately, justice in Victoria is peanuts. Wait till he gets caught, he will be afforded all the rights he can have in this country, enjoy the luxury of prison and lots of appeals. Torture is the only logical and sane punishment this monster deserves.
    Comment 35 of 79
  • reptus of melbourne Posted at 9:25 AM December 14, 2010
    if mr cruel is that smart i doubt they will ever find him. But the police could pin someone else just to make the families have closure.
    Comment 36 of 79
  • We must never forget Posted at 9:35 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember this case vividly and was only just talking about it on friday. I think it's great that this hideous crime is again in the public eye. I hate to think what this monster has been up to for the past 20 years, he needs to constantly hunted and when found, shot between the legs then between the eyes. I'll put my hand up to do if required. I wish the Chan family all the strength in the world to deal with their tragedy being brought back to the public again.
    Comment 37 of 79
  • the BOOM of The Future Posted at 9:43 AM December 14, 2010
    if i had any info believe me i wouldnt bother turning him in to the cops - why give him the satisfaction of 4 walls and 3 square meals a day for 10 years, when i could give him justice personally and torture him worse than his victims. i hope i find you before they do.
    Comment 38 of 79
  • Mikey of Preston Posted at 9:47 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember this case like it was only yesterday. I remember not feeling safe walking to and from school and watching my back. I’m glad they haven’t given up. They’re going to get you Mr Cruel
    Comment 39 of 79
  • Janet Posted at 9:58 AM December 14, 2010
    Great when they finally do catch him. Karma is a cool pay back to a cruel person. The sad part is a lot of people know the person, without really knowing him. That will be distressing to those that only thought they knew him, and probably had him in their home with their children. And how will his children feel??? (if he has any) Did he do it to them?? Probably. Wish all concerned some peace and closure after this ends.
    Comment 40 of 79
  • RIC D T WILSON of MELBOURNE. Posted at 9:59 AM December 14, 2010
    This man should give himself in. I am also surprised that with FBI type profiling this suspect has not been arrested and charged after all this time. Sadly, the general description could match thousands of people and makes it very hard for both police and members of the public to get this criminal. To think that we have murderers and other serious criminals living within our midst is daunting. Victoria should/could invest in someome from overseas to fully investigate this type of case - someone with a proven track record of putting these serial killers where they belong. Does anybody like that exist? They must have someone.
    Comment 41 of 79
  • Matthew of Melbourne Posted at 10:03 AM December 14, 2010
    I lived very close to where Karmein was abducted and was her age. I remember kids at school being pretty shaken by it and it was the talk of the playground for a year or two. Well, fame always comes at a price matey and when you're caught you should be handed over for medical research, testing new drugs, that kind of thing...
    Comment 42 of 79
  • Pam MELBOURNE Posted at 10:04 AM December 14, 2010
    If he doesnt get caught on earth, he will have to meet his maker, whom I dont think will be impressed at all. He has to answer to someone, and I wouldnt like to be in his shoes, when he has to explain his actions.
    Comment 43 of 79
  • Eric of Bella Vista Posted at 10:11 AM December 14, 2010
    My thoughts are with the parents who have had to live through hell for the past 20 years because of this sicko. Let us hope that justice is done eventually.
    Comment 44 of 79
  • Dan in Bayside Posted at 10:13 AM December 14, 2010
    So if this news report is accurate wouldnt Mr Cruel be reading this & thinking I need to get the hell out of here? Just like the Maddy McCann case I wont believe until I see
    Comment 45 of 79
  • david green of australia Posted at 10:19 AM December 14, 2010
    punishment should be equivlent to the crime as seen overseas and let the families and public deal out the justice the words he used bozo,worry wart etc seem like from a bogan sort of person uneducated but clever wnough to get away with it so long he is street wise and covers his tracks well but he will get caught but i still think there is a key police are missing being the location carmen was at or how he randomly selected her house given its not a poor area. neighbors security camera perhaps or a neighbour that may have seen some person loitering around at that time or a car as i guess there was a car involved to take the kid away God i wish i knew who he was i would surrender him to police hanging from a tree with a note to his id attached
    Comment 46 of 79
  • david green of australia Posted at 10:21 AM December 14, 2010
    ps $300-000 if i found him forget the reward put it to a child protection fund named after carmen
    Comment 47 of 79
  • Matthew of Melbourne Posted at 10:44 AM December 14, 2010
    Darren of Carlton - that information was released at the time. As a 13 year old back then, living in the area, I'd listen out to any men at shopping centres, carparks, anywhere. Those phrases are burnt into my memory.
    Comment 48 of 79
  • Hang him high of Melbourne Posted at 10:47 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember this case when I was a kid. To those worried about him getting a lenient sentence - if the murderers in Barwon and Port Phillip dont get him when he gets locked up, the rapists will.
    Comment 49 of 79
  • Ashley of Perth Posted at 10:48 AM December 14, 2010
    Dan in Bayside Victoria please do not put things in the paper unless they have all aspects covered. They will be watching this creeps every move at this time. They release information to press for reasons and hold back information for same reasons..
    Comment 50 of 79
  • Sad story Posted at 10:50 AM December 14, 2010
    I can't believe it's been nearly 20 years. I remember this case vividly - very tragic. Hope he gets caught soon as he has roamed the streets for the last 20 years while Karmein's parents are still waiting for closure. Hope he gets what he deserves - well he deserves the death penalty but that won't happen here. One can only hope the prison system will fix him up.
    Comment 51 of 79
  • Tenez Le Droit 1980-1995 of Perth WA Posted at 10:53 AM December 14, 2010
    If the meticulous multi-child abductor Mr Cool and the media created apparition Mr Cruel, who murdered Karmein Chan, are in fact one and the same person it will be a genuine surprise to myself and any Victoria Police involved in the original cases. I truly hope that the latest announcements have some substance for if ever a mother deserved to know the truth behind the execution-style death of her daughter it is Mrs Chan.
    Comment 52 of 79
  • MK Posted at 10:55 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember being in grade 1 in '91 and all the kids at school were scared, once someone saw a van parked outside the school and rumours went around it was Mr Cruel, all the kids including myself were running around screaming. Let's hope he is caught.
    Comment 53 of 79
  • Here n Now of Melb Posted at 11:00 AM December 14, 2010
    bring back the death penalty to all child killers.
    Comment 54 of 79
  • Speak up Posted at 11:07 AM December 14, 2010
    You'd think that somebody, somewhere in the community has a suspicion or has knowledge about this animal. Hopefully this re-newed coverage will flush them out.
    Comment 55 of 79
  • Lyn of FTG Posted at 11:12 AM December 14, 2010
    Why has Mr Cruel been absent for the past 20 years? Maybe he is already in jail for something else or gone to maggot kingdom! What gets me is that someone, somewhere must have an idea of who this scumbag is and they remain silent - why? There must be some form of closure for the families - 20 years of hell not knowing is living hell.
    Comment 56 of 79
  • J9 of Mornington, Victoria Posted at 11:25 AM December 14, 2010
    This is definitely a case when we need the death penalty back - this scum doesn't even deserve to breath!! Unfortunately even if he gets caught & locked up then no doubt like all the other sicko paedophiles & child killers he'll no doubt get protection & that's what really stinks!!!
    Comment 57 of 79
  • Nguyen of melbourne Posted at 11:36 AM December 14, 2010
    i remember this crime very well. Especially because i live in thomastown. I hope this person gets caught and locked up in a cell and throw away the key. This person doesn't deserve the death punishment. That is the easy way out.
    Comment 58 of 79
  • Karafs Posted at 11:44 AM December 14, 2010
    I remember that photo of Mrs Chan and her 2 daughters praying like it was yesterday. And man let me tell you I'm no hero but just give me 10 mins with this pr**k's hands tied behind his back and his mouth gagged....just 10 mins is all I ask.
    Comment 59 of 79
  • Nicholas Ringhof Posted at 11:51 AM December 14, 2010
    A really sad and tragic story, however what I find more frustrating is that this animal will get 18 months or the like for these crimes. Our legal system is way to lenient on serious crime. Conversely this guy would qualify for the death sentence in the US. Whilst I am not a proponent for capital punishment, it does emphasize how lax we are.
    Comment 60 of 79
  • forget about it Posted at 11:52 AM December 14, 2010
    He will never go to jail, this is aussieland , remember ?? Most livable country for criminals .
    Comment 61 of 79
  • Sergei Oblomov of Sandringham Posted at 11:52 AM December 14, 2010
    So what is the difference in the adjudication of crimes that results in the arbitrary gulf between a $1 Million and $300,000 reward?
    Comment 62 of 79
  • CatBHawks of Eltham Posted at 12:04 PM December 14, 2010
    Remembering thisg ave me shivers down my back living near there and knowing Mrs Chan...All kids even young teenagers were scared. 20 years ago and all that meticulous forensic knowledge...I hate to think..
    Comment 63 of 79
  • Forgotten Australian Family Posted at 12:08 PM December 14, 2010
    I wish the cops in Queensland never gave up, ex-reporter! They have let my abuser stay at large for many many years, despite the fact that he is known to have also abused a 12 year old girl in the 50s! He is still at large, and 80 years old. A teacher from a leading girls' private school in Brisbane said his reputation was well known by her generation in the 50s. This is an offending career of over 50 years.
    Comment 64 of 79
  • Ben Connors of Tullamarine Posted at 12:14 PM December 14, 2010
    I wish for two things - firstly that this monster is found and tried, and secondly that we had capital punishment so they swing from a rope. I don't want this thing found, do few years in prison then get parole from the do-gooders!
    Comment 65 of 79
  • Bono of Melbourne Posted at 12:38 PM December 14, 2010
    Just reading this story brings me the chills... hope they catch him.
    Comment 66 of 79
  • GL of Melbourne Posted at 12:41 PM December 14, 2010
    In listening to 3AW this morning the police siad that this was a covert operation until the media released it. Let's hope that in the race for a headline that it doesn't drive the facts and possible offender (if still alive) further underground.
    Comment 67 of 79
  • Jooles Posted at 12:49 PM December 14, 2010
    I remember Karmein Chan. Please catch this man and give her poor parents some closure. RIP dear one, you didn't deserve to die.
    Comment 68 of 79
  • Steve of The Dandenongs Posted at 1:10 PM December 14, 2010
    Huge kudo's are due to the Police for their efforts. Too often we see the coppers being criticized for trivial things, lets recognize fantastic and unrelenting efforts by the backbone of the Police Force. Great efforts guys and girls.
    Comment 69 of 79
  • Flash of Melb Posted at 1:20 PM December 14, 2010
    I always wondered why the offending stopped or at least seemed to after this tragedy. People like this do not reform.
    Comment 70 of 79
  • Scott Brown of Frankston Posted at 1:34 PM December 14, 2010
    If they catch him, we should re-introduce the death penalty, send him to the chair in record time and then abolish the death penalty again immediately after. Whoever this is does not deserve to live. They deserve death, swift and painful. No more. No less.
    Comment 71 of 79
  • Dougie of Altona Posted at 1:46 PM December 14, 2010
    It's standard MO to announce operations such as these close to their conclusion. It allows police to monitor a suspects reaction to the news. Guilty people don't tend to behave normally once they realise they may about to be apprehended.
    Comment 72 of 79
  • Johnno. of Adelaide Posted at 1:51 PM December 14, 2010
    Paedophiles' we gaol them release them gaol them release them gaol th.... Time we got serious with these people.
    Comment 73 of 79
  • brett of Tas Posted at 1:53 PM December 14, 2010
    I always wonder why police have a list of known offenders who are still alive. Why do we have people with such horrible tendencies in our community and we allow them to live? - Anyone that the police knows has a history or predisposition to do things like this ought not be allowed to live - we should cull those people from our society, not keep them alive
    Comment 74 of 79
  • Max Healey Posted at 1:54 PM December 14, 2010
    Mr Cruel New Zealand has got away with drowning kids. And the recreational hunting and killing of young people on the roads. The Police can't get the hard evidence needed to convict him. How can the Australian Police Force can get a conviction Victoria's Mr Cruel even though they know who he is?.
    Comment 75 of 79
  • Matt R of Melbourne Posted at 2:04 PM December 14, 2010
    We will get this dog... Police dont forget, or give up..
    Comment 76 of 79
  • Brett of NSW Posted at 2:09 PM December 14, 2010
    Charming...what sort of lowlife gets his jollies filming little girls being raped and murdered? I remember this case and it went cold after a while. I wonder how many more innocent chilren have died at this maniac's hands over the last 20 years and even if he is caught, do we have penalties sufficient to deal with this sort of crime, or moreover, would our useless courts even hand down the available maximums? Doubt it.
    Comment 77 of 79
  • YMC Posted at 2:21 PM December 14, 2010
    But due to the soft sentencing in this country, he'd just get sent to a soft comfy cell for a few years before some psychiatrist will pronounce him as cured and locating him in a country town.
    Comment 78 of 79
  • Time is running out Posted at 2:22 PM December 14, 2010
    To the man who killed Karmein Chan and hurt other children...your time is coming. You had better hope the cops get you before the public do as you will not have a hope of surviving the anger of the people. You are a parents worst nightmare 'the bogeyman' of our dreams. I hope these children have haunted you for the crimes you have committed against them. May you never sleep in peace.
    Comment 79 of 79

Quote:
Azza says: February 7, 2011 at 9:26 pm
They have to get this piece of shit, it’s been too long, and to be honest I live in the North East where he prowled and fear for my kids safety knowing the shit is still alive and free.

lana says: May 16, 2011 at 5:42 am
Mr cruel low life scum bag is not a hospital orderly.he’s a sick little creep.bathroom circa 1958.

In conclusion, Australians were dealing with a home invading at night over school holiday child pedophile and killer, Mr. Cruel, and Jonbenet's crime makes sense in light of this fact.

Mr. Cruel is a particularly attractive target for further research and investigation in that he is a super-planner, a criminal mastermind
Mr. Cruel's known crimes show planning and good knowledge of forensics, at the level of a genius.









Based on crime linkage analysis, the Jonbenet murder has significant links to the Mr. Cruel's crimes in Australia, and therefore, this was a pedophile attack on a young girl for sexual exploitation, committed by a criminal mastermind and genius named Mr. Cruel, who takes active counter measures to forensics and profiling to cover his tracks. The ransom note itself reveals clues of the author's Australian English origins, and his previous experiences with pedophile crimes.

When Mr. Cruel abudcted Nicola Lydia, he told her sister $25, 000 AUD (equal to $25k USD) but made no attempt to collect on the ransom. Therefore, the Jonbenet murder was a pedophile attack on JB, made to look like a kidnapping gone bad.


ATTN: FBI TASKFORCE APOLLO CBI Ramsey Investigators
Quote:
Rewards

There is a $300,000 reward for information leading to a conviction

I have offered you information that leads to identification and capture and convinction of Mr. Cruel. I do not know who Mr. Cruel is, but the FBI in conjunction with CBI and Australia's Taskforce Apollo, look at all Australian nationals who fit Mr. Cruel's description (i.e 5'9" white slender) who was known to be in Boulder Co in 1996 December.

Taskforce Apollo Test DNA of all Mr. Cruel suspects against DNA found on Jonbenet's clothing, and all Mr. Cruel suspects known to be in Colorado December 1996.

I request to collect the $300, 000 AUD reward in Australia for information leading to the identification and capture of Mr. Cruel, along with the $100, 0000 reward for Prudence Bird, Seanna Tapp, and Eloise Worlege. I also request to collect $250, 000 reward for information leading to the arrest of Jonbenet's killer, Mr. Cruel. I also plan to write a book explaining in detail how I found Mr. Cruel and Jonbenet's killer. I also request that should you state you have a new lead on the hunt for Mr. Cruel or new lead on Jonbenet's killer, to give me credit as to where the lead originated. PM me and I'll be happy to provide you my name and contact info.

The lead I offer: that the DNA found on Jonbenet's clothing is Mr. Cruel's, and Mr. Cruel was in Boulder Co, Dec 1996 is information that will lead to a conviction, both in the US and Australia.

If you are an investigative reporter, member of the media, documentary maker, film, author, etc., please do not plagiarize or steal my research and give me credit for originating this linkage. I would be happy to appear on news and documentaries explaining my findings. e.g Aphrodite Jones, Bill Curtis, 60 minutes, 20/20, Australia's Foxtel Crime Investigation: Australia, psychic detectives like Sensing Murder, Tabloid magazine like Globe, etc.

I do request that to receive the reward money in Australia for Mr. Cruel, and for identifying and solving the Jonbenet in the US, as well as full credit in any forum or media coverage, tabloid, news magazine, reporters, etc.

I believe the Ramsey $100, 000 is valid BUT the website the Jonbenet foundation is down.

FBI and Taskforce Appollo did you get my email??


Jonbenet murder mystery has been solved thanks to me and the scientific theory of behavioral case linkage analysis. Karmein Chan's killer, Mr. Cruel also murdered Jonbenet Ramsey, and is responsible for Eloise Worledge abduction as well.

I do want recognition and reward money.

Now that Jonbenet murder mystery is solved, we can ask for the reason and motive for the crime. It's the same motive in 11-year old attacked in Lower Plenty, Sharon Wills, Nicola Lydia and Karmein Chain and Eloise Worledge, and Hampton area young girls. Sexual motivation. Mr. Cruel murdered Jonbenet for the same reason as Karmein Chan, to cover his tracks. What Mr. Cruel learned from Chan's is that he can get the focus of the investigation on the parents, if he leaves writing (the Chans were investigated as Asian drug dealers and had to prove they were not Asian drug dealers). The $118k bonus was to mislead investigators into believing that either the Ramseys or someone close to them did it.




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Old 09-27-2011, 01:54 PM
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Cliff notes.................
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen900
Cliff notes.................

"Two of his victims were able to provide details of the house where they were imprisoned. Both were shackled to a "detention bed" with a rough neck brace. One told detectives she heard planes landing, leading police to believe the house was on one of the flight paths to Melbourne Airport. Police checked houses in Keilor East, Niddrie, Airport West, Keilor Park and Essendon North.
The FBI profile suggests Mr Cruel was unlikely to fit the popular stereotype of a child molester. "In view of the fact that these incidents all occur during school holidays … we suggest there is a high degree of probability that the offender is involved with a school. He may be employed there or connected with a school in some other capacity."

He learned about JB from her participation in pageants, and hatched a plan to kidnap her, film and photograph her, then kill her and implicate the parents as much as possible.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:07 PM
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This link

http://media.theage.com.au/new-suspe...e-2095165.html

has a profiler discussing Mr. Cruel, and around 1:30 you see photos of 3 of his 4 victims, and the 3 are white females.

the modus operands is strikingly similar to JB crime.

Everything Mr. Cruel does is extremely planned in advance

"

Police knew the kidnapper was calm and methodical. ''The offender had ample time to survey the grounds prior to entering the house as there was little or no security,'' according to the initial taskforce report, seen by The Age.
But he did more than look. Even before entering the home he spray-painted the bonnet and windscreen of Mrs Chan's Toyota Camry sedan with the words, ''Pay back, Asian drug dealer'' and on the driver's side ''More'' and ''More to come''.
This meant he knew the family was Asian and he was trying to lay a false trail even before he abducted Karmein."

His getaway was well planned. A police dog tracked Karmein's scent from the kitchen sliding door, through the garden to a gate at the tennis court, then across the court, through a second gate to a side fence and a drop of nearly two metres to the street. The trail went for another 300 metres to an overgrown vacant block, where police say the kidnapper had hidden his car.
So who was the man? Police believed then - as they do now - that it was a child abductor known only as Mr Cruel and that he was responsible for at least three other attacks from 1987 to 1991.
In the three previous cases the victims had been released, which gave the investigating police hope Karmein would be found alive.
This hope was extinguished a year later when a man walking his dog at Edgars Creek in Thomastown found her body. She had been shot three times in the head, execution-style.
This didn't fit the offender's known pattern. In the previous cases he had assured his victims they were not in danger. One told police, ''He appeared to be acting out a fantasy like he was married to me. He showed this by the affection he showed to me and how chummy he was to me.''
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:45 PM
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an example of Modus operndus

"Shortly before releasing one victim, he thoroughly cleaned the bathroom and then lay down a sheet on the lino-covered floor to avoid leaving footprints. In one case, he took a second set of clothes from the girl's home to dress her before she was freed. In another, he dumped the girl in garbage bags so police could not test her original clothes.
He is thought to have kept his victims' homes under surveillance, and drove abducted girls in different directions and changed cars to disorientate them. The level of planning was shown when he grabbed one of the girls and told her exactly when he would release her — 50 hours after she was abducted.
Two of his victims were able to provide details of the house where they were imprisoned. Both were shackled to a "detention bed" with a rough neck brace."

"We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. ....You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities."

It's frequently commented on that JB was redressed in a much larger size 12 bloomies.

Inspector Rex saw an earlier thread where I describe her killer as a criminal mastermind and careful planner with detailed knowledge of forensics. (where I outline what specific actions he may have undertook)

Notice that he spraypainted racist graffiti BEFORE abducting Karmein Chan. I believe he wrote the RN BEFORE the crime.

This news report states up to 12

http://www.crimenet.org/show_unsolved.phtml?id=81&sid=

Unsolved Crimes

Karmein Chan: Child murderer and abductor `Mr Cruel` still on the loose


Location:

Australia

Crime:


The 1991 abduction and murder of 13-year old Karmein Chan (pictured) remains unsolved and the so called �Mr Cruel� remains one of the most wanted persons in Australia. He was the subject of Victoria�s biggest manhunt.

As time passes and with leads drying up the prospect of police bringing Mr Cruel to justice is diminishing. Despite a $300,000 reward and the setting up of the 40-strong Operation Spectrum taskforce the case remains unsolved with no prime suspect, although a list of people have not been eliminated by police.

Karmein Chan was abducted from her Templestow home on April 13,1991 while she was baby sitting her two younger sisters, who were locked in a cupboard before Mr Cruel kidnapped Karmein at knife point.

Karmein�s body was found a year later. This is believed to be Mr Cruel�s last known abduction.

Police believe Mr Cruel was responsible for as many as 12 attacks on children over at least a 10-year period. His first known victim was an 11-year-old girl, who was raped in her home after her parents and brother were tied up. He was armed with a knife and a handgun.


He is also suspected of being responsible for a string of earlier sex attacks in the Hampton area, including the abduction and rape of a 14-year-old girl. She was later dumped in suburban Moorabbin.


Police are certain however that it was Mr Cruel that abducted and assaulted 10-year-old Sharon Wills and 13-year-old Nicola Lynas.

Sharon Wills was abducted from her Ringwood North home in December 1988 before being dumped 18 hours later. She was wearing a man�s shirt and wrapped in plastic rubbish bags.

In July 1990 Nicola Lynas was abducted from her home in Canterbury after her sister was tied up. She was taken to a house and held hostage for two days before being dropped off near her home.

Some detectives on the taskforce believe Karmein`s murder is not linked to Mr Cruel, arguing that killing his victim was out of character, as all his previous known victims had been released.

However Det-Supt Steve Fontana, who headed Operation Spectrum, firmly believes the same person was responsible for the previous abductions and the murder of Karmein. It had been suggested Karmein was killed after she was able to remove her blindfold and get a look at her abductor, leaving him little option but to kill her to avoid capture.


Mr Cruel demonstrated an intimate knowledge of forensic science by methodically destroying any physical evidence that might later identify him.

He carefully washed himself and his victims and even got them to brush their teeth and scape under their fingernails.



� His crimes were very much pre-meditated,� Det-Supt Fontana said. � He wore a balaclava, always wore gloves, he always made sure the girls were blindfolded the whole time.�
Det-Supt Fontana has a few ideas on what might have happened to the man he hunted for so long.

� He may be in custody for other matters, he may have gone interstate or overseas. Or he may have stopped because of that last offence and the gravity of what he has done,� he said.

Det-Supt Fontana believes Mr Cruel will appear anything but cruel to family and friends.

�He�s very intelligent and probably comes across as being a reasonable sort of person. He is very talented and will be very meticulous in the way he goes about things.�

An FBI compiled profile suggests Mr Cruel is employed in a field that allows him freedom of movement.He has an obsessive, compulsive character � the type who would immediately wipe his hands if soiled.

He is someone who gets satisfaction from the way things look rather than for their use, he is intelligent and well organised. He will seem genuinely interested in and dedicated to children.

He has expressed sexual fantasies or showed sexually dysfunctional behaviour.

Rewards


There is a $300,000 reward for information leading to a conviction

If you have any information on this matter, please email us at unsolved@crimenet.com.au.

Last edited by redpill : 09-29-2011 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:49 PM
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Other than that Mr Cruel abducted and molested girls, what other evidence is there that he was involved in JonBenet's death?
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:27 PM
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Please refer to topic's that pertain to "JonBenet Murder Case" ONLY.

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Old 09-28-2011, 01:14 AM
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The fact seems to be that this individual has not been caught and there is reference to this person possibly fleeing abroad, so I am guessing he might have moved to America if so what Spin is saying is that his m.o fits this crime in a number of respects.
Spin did they ever get any DNA from this guy? I assume not.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FairM
The fact seems to be that this individual has not been caught and there is reference to this person possibly fleeing abroad, so I am guessing he might have moved to America if so what Spin is saying is that his m.o fits this crime in a number of respects.
Spin did they ever get any DNA from this guy? I assume not.

DNA has been overrated. We convicted murderers for centuries before DNA. I like the new dna aspect but it doesn't alleviate common sense.

Mark David Carr etc......... give me a break. The parents killed JBR. It's so obvious and the parents helped so much in revealing that fact.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FairM
The fact seems to be that this individual has not been caught and there is reference to this person possibly fleeing abroad, so I am guessing he might have moved to America if so what Spin is saying is that his m.o fits this crime in a number of respects.
Spin did they ever get any DNA from this guy? I assume not.

Yeah basically
He could also take skiing trips to Denver, Co. I've skied there and there are lots of Aussies there who ski. Keep in mind that summer break for Aussies is our winter.


Operation Spectrum established that Mr Cruel was almost certainly responsible for an early series of sex attacks in Melbourne's southern suburbs in the 1980s.
Detectives wanted to review the evidence from those cases. But they were bitterly disappointed to find some of the evidence had been lost.
Of particular concern was that the tape Mr Cruel had used to bind one of his victims was missing.
Forensic technology has improved since those attacks in the 1980s and scientists can extract identifying characteristics from the smallest of samples. Mr Cruel's DNA may well have been on that tape because it is likely he was not as careful during those early attacks as he was in the later abductions of Sharon Wills, Nicola Lynas and Karmein Chan.
"But we will never know as the exhibit just isn't there any more," Cdr Sprague said.
"In those days police just didnt have the supervision that they do now," he said. "With things like exhibits, people would sometimes leave them in their lockers.
"By the time we identified these additional attacks, years after they had taken place, some of those exhibits had been lost and others had simply been thrown out. They had never been examined.
"One exhibit that was lost was tape that one of the victims had been tied up in.


Think about what would have had to happen for an intruder to enter the R's house over school break and kill JB.

Look at Mr. Cruel's m.o. He's entered house full of entire family. He plans ahead. He plans carefully. He has detailed knowledge of forensics and countermeasures.
The taskforce worked for 29 months at a cost of nearly $4 million. Its 40 staff checked 27,000 suspects and investigated 10,000 tips. Detectives arrested 73 people on a range of offences, many relating to sex crimes.
Mr Cruel apparently planned his attacks and tried to avoid leaving clues. He bathed two of his victims before releasing them — to minimise the chance he could be identified through forensic samples — and wiped sinks and benchtops to remove fingerprints. One victim told police he bathed her "like a mother washing a baby".
Shortly before releasing one victim, he thoroughly cleaned the bathroom and then lay down a sheet on the lino-covered floor to avoid leaving footprints. In one case, he took a second set of clothes from the girl's home to dress her before she was freed. In another, he dumped the girl in garbage bags so police could not test her original clothes.
He is thought to have kept his victims' homes under surveillance, and drove abducted girls in different directions and changed cars to disorientate them. The level of planning was shown when he grabbed one of the girls and told her exactly when he would release her — 50 hours after she was abducted.

He also knows of criminal profiling and he tried to make his attack on Karmen Chan a hate crime, and told the 3 earlier families it is a robbery.

Police knew the kidnapper was calm and methodical. ''The offender had ample time to survey the grounds prior to entering the house as there was little or no security,'' according to the initial taskforce report, seen by The Age.
But he did more than look. Even before entering the home he spray-painted the bonnet and windscreen of Mrs Chan's Toyota Camry sedan with the words, ''Pay back, Asian drug dealer'' and on the driver's side ''More'' and ''More to come''.
This meant he knew the family was Asian and he was trying to lay a false trail even before he abducted Karmein."

I believe he wrote the RN before he entered the Ramsey's house.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Rex
Other than that Mr Cruel abducted and molested girls, what other evidence is there that he was involved in JonBenet's death?

You know how JB was redressed with size 12 bloomies?
"Shortly before releasing one victim, he thoroughly cleaned the bathroom and then lay down a sheet on the lino-covered floor to avoid leaving footprints. In one case, he took a second set of clothes from the girl's home to dress her before she was freed. In another, he dumped the girl in garbage bags so police could not test her original clothes.

The FBI profile suggests Mr Cruel was unlikely to fit the popular stereotype of a child molester. "In view of the fact that these incidents all occur during school holidays … we suggest there is a high degree of probability that the offender is involved with a school. He may be employed there or connected with a school in some other capacity.
"The offender has an intense interest in children, especially children in the age group he is assaulting. He will spend a great deal of time with these children in what appears to be selfless dedication to students. This apparent dedication may well have earned him recognition and awards (teacher of the year, coach of the year, exceptional volunteer, etc).


He goes skiing in Denver, Colorado, where a certain beauty pageant winner caught his attention.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen900
DNA has been overrated. We convicted murderers for centuries before DNA. I like the new dna aspect but it doesn't alleviate common sense.

Mark David Carr etc......... give me a break. The parents killed JBR. It's so obvious and the parents helped so much in revealing that fact.

That's your opinion Zen , to me it is not obvious they killed her. The DNA is in Codis for a reason, you never know one day they may get a match, when they do that person has some explaining to do.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:19 PM
Zen900 Zen900 is offline
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I don't go into forums in Australia and blame the Ramsey's for killing children who were carried off by Dingos.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FairM
That's your opinion Zen , to me it is not obvious they killed her. The DNA is in Codis for a reason, you never know one day they may get a match, when they do that person has some explaining to do.


I don't get how the DNA being in Codis gets overlooked and scoffed at. And I know people have issue with touch DNA but it corroborated the DNA already in Codis. It blows my mind Fair M.
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spin
You know how JB was redressed with size 12 bloomies?

Um, well no, actually we don't know this at all.
The fact that she was wearing size 12's does not indicate that she was redressed at all.
I call this another of RDI's unproven 'totallity' items.

On other forums and freely available on the internet, is a photograph of two pairs of Bloomingdales panties. These are supposedly in the sizes 6 and 12-14. I've always been sceptical about this.



So, via some young nieces, I have been able to buy underwear for girls in these sizes. The smaller pair is size 4-6 and on the label it says "To fit height 108/120cm, chest 60/64cm, waist 56/58cm" The larger pair is size 12-14 and the label says "To fit height 150/160cm, chest 80/86cm, waist 64/66cm". If you look on the Bloomingdales size chart, you will see these are fairly consistent, eventhough they don't have weight but instead have chest/waist, the height range is similar. http://www1.bloomingdales.com/popup/...Chart_KIDS.jpg

So while I have read that the Bloomies 12-14's were enormous, falling off her and obviously too big, the fact was that no one at the autopsy commented on this. If you have a look at the photograph I took of the two pairs overlaid on each other, you will see that the difference is not so great that anyone would notice, and they certainly wouldn't have been falling down, yes, a little large though.

So, I think that's another RDI theory debunked.

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